I commented with the same correction before I saw yours! Sorry for the repeat comment fellas! I have seen the messianic church used before by a few politicians on the more religious right to try an “I love Jews” campaign. It’s cringe and when I saw that from Kanye after everything that happened the day before...ughhhh.
One point in defense of Kmele and one point of confusion:
1. Kmele says "redemption is better than excommunication" and I think this point is missed by Michael and Matt. Calling someone human garbage, even if they say the execrable things Kanye did, is not a path forward. I hear Michael say all the time that silencing people tends to lead to more extremism not less. He then compares Kanye and Jewish people to drowning puppies. He has committed no crime. And I feel bad for the man. Just like I feel bad for many of the people that hold similarly horrific views on race. I think of Daryl Davis, who converted outright Klan members by having a conversation, by trying to find empathy. That is the approach we should take. The line separating good and evil is through every human heart. We should feel for those that have crossed that line. These are generally people who are at the margins of society and may be unwell. We should help them see their errors and help them if we can. If someone tells me they are flat earther, I don't call them an idiot and write them off. I just think, they are clearly lost. I don't care about Addidas, or clothing lines, or any of that shit. If I owned Addidas, I'd drop him too. But we are talking about our actions on a person to person level.
2. I don't understand why we lament someones path to crazy town and cry over their records or any art. Eli Lake makes this point about Ezra Pound (I'd be curious if he has any changes of heart on Kanye at this point). But I will proudly listen to College Dropout and love every minute of it. The Bass Line in Billie Jean is fantastic, and I will always love it. Huge Ryan Adams fan. I will listen knowing that he says horrific shit, but I don't care all that much. Kanye's view are not my problem, so why waste the tears?
I think some people who are in the throws of an episode are not going to be reasoned with. Lex Fridman tried the approach you propose and it failed. Badly. Suggested listen to Freddie DeBoerg on Honstly about the dangers of ignoring people who are experiencing a very visible disconnect from reality. Explaining things or reasoning to a mentally impaired person is like trying to plug a hole in your boat with your hand. It's futile.
I was listening to this yesterday on my drive home sans headphones, stopped to pick up dinner and the place was quiet, only a few other diners. As I was walking out, I accidentally touched my phone’s screen, the pod started playing at the loudest volume with the guys screaming about Hitler, *every* person in the place turns to look at me as if I’m the one screaming out the name Hitler! So thanks guys, now I’m afraid to ever go back to my fave Chinese spot 😂
I made the mistake of watching nearly all of the Ye-Jones interview. I am vastly dumber for my efforts and will be quarantining for a week as a precaution.
Couple of points:
The lads wrestle with the contradictions in Ye's statements and try to make sense of it. In the words of one Kmele Foster from ages ago: "The man is completely fucking incoherent."
Ye repeatedly, consistently, and utterly without prompting said things like "There are a loooooot of things that I loooooove about Hitler". However, he never specified anything. The most he said was "you know, Hitler was born a Christian." And yes, he repeatedly said "I love Jewish people. I love all Jewish people", usually immediately before saying something about the "Jewish Media", "Netin'", or one of the Emanuel brothers. Not once did he very make an attempt to reconcile those two sentiments himself. I didn't get the impression that Ye had any great familiarity with white nationalist ideology of culture beyond a couple memes "Hitler good", "Holocaust is a lie", "jewish media". In fairness, Jones quickly changed the subject whenever Ye got started, so maybe he could have expounded at length on the subject.
Edit: basically, Ye has no ideology, has been ostracized from polite society and is now surrounding himself with the worst people. He clearly has a conspiratorial mindset, which has been discussed many times on this show. At one point he said something along the lines of"watch, this very show is proof of the Jewish Media's power. If I get criticized for this show, it's proof that they control what people care about, and have the power to put me in jail and take my money." He also claimed that he walked out of the Tim Pool interview because "The Jewish Media called him 10 minutes before I got there and told him what to say". Ye probably doesn't actually have an anti-Semitic ideology, but he does seem to have sincerely latched onto the belief that all the criticism he gets is orchestrated by the 'Jewish Media'.
Haven't watched it, not gonna watch it. So, is there even a SCINTILLA of a chance Kanye is pulling a Joaquin Phoenix on the planet and this is all a VERY elaborate prank?
A scintilla that he's on a brief pro-Hitler-as-performance-art bender, from which he'll move on shortly? Sure. I didn't get the impression that he was expressing deeply held beliefs so much as just trying to piss everyone off and prove that he can do/say whatever he wants.
I saw the picture of his appearance on Alex Jones, and was just transported back to the Phoenix/Letterman interview. Like, this dude is playing a seriously elaborate prank on the world. I mean, if it is, it would be one of THE most amazing performances of all time. But that kind of act would imply rationality, and I don't think a rational actor would go and take the prank to the point where they sacrificed hundreds of millions (billions?) of dollars. So instead what we have is the sad decline of a crazy person happening in real-time with the world as an audience, which is why I'm grasping at straws. BTW, I have absolutely no emotional investment in Kanye. I guess it's a cultural blind spot, but I literally couldn't name a single song of his. I have to take it on faith when people tell me he's a musical genius. But I do sympathize with Kmele. It's better not to know much if anything about your artistic heroes, in general.
Kanye seems like he's suffering from florid mania. It can look a lot like schizophrenia. I once sat in on a therapy session with someone suffering with psychotic mania and he pointed to "the four horsemen" who were in the room with him. Clinically, it gets far worse.
Morally, though, the garbage he's spewing should rightly have consequences. I wish similar scrutiny would be applied to the squad for instance.
That is a good point. The difference is that the antisemitic members of the squad are smart and not insane, so they are very adept at couching their AS in ways that look much more innocent than it is and can be explained away by their fans (maybe not Omar so much, but she learns from her mistakes).
I feel for Kmele....I still can't give up my undergrad copies of The Second Sex even though Simone et. al were legit supporters of pedophiles. It's hard when those we love let us down.
I literally had two teenage girls scratching at the door to have their sleepover space vacated. K & M can review their post-taping rap performance if they so choose.
Come on MM, there is no way the vagina, virgin incel has the capacity for 3 hours of masturbation. That takes a real commitment and a lot of arm strength.
10 minutes tops. 30 seconds watching his name appear in media headlines, 2 minutes watching Kayne and Milo interact (vagina virgin) and 3 minutes for George Clooney because everyone appreciates a classic. It's fun womensplaining male masturbation.
Michael and Matt, not guilty by reason of insanity is an actual thing. To the extent that Kayne is having some sort of psychotic break, it is an excuse for his behavior. To the extent there are sane people exploiting Kayne for their 15 seconds of fame, they are the far more worthy of condemnation than Kayne. That is just my opinion & it is very possible I'm wrong.
Is Kayne a garbage human?
Is Wernher von Braun, often referred to as the father of space travel & father of rocket science, a garbage human?
As a high ranking member of the SS, he was decorated by Hitler twice, including being awarded the Iron Cross for his work on guided missiles. Wernher von Braun handpicked slave labor at Buchenwald.
He was part of a group of 1600 Nazi scientists, engineers & other "experts" the Yanks brought to the USA after WW2 as part of Operation Paperclip. This Apollo program director Sam Phillips, said in the absence of von Braun, he did not believe the United States would have reached the Moon at all.
The backbone of NASA were actual Nazi's, who were never held accountable for their war crimes (most of their identities were kept secret by the US government).
Who gets to condemn? Who should be condemned? It's complicated.
I'm Ashkenazi Jew, I think coercive government power, used for illegitimate purposes, is far more dangerous than a trio of moronic, anti-Semites on the AJ podcast.
When was this recorded? I can't believe neither the China not Iran protests warranted a mention reading the liner notes. Nevertheless, looking forward to it
Could y'all invite Masih Alinejad on at some point? I just finished her book (belatedly). Powerful! In a fantasy world you'd have MA & Azar Nafisi drinking heavily with the 3 of you....
Not for nothing there is absolutely no way a synagogue would let him in at the moment. Synagogues (the majority) are heavily guarded and often have armed security and locked gates. It’s not a place anyone can just walk in.
The emotion and outrage that Kmele can bring to EVERYTHING except Kanye is hilarious.
Outrage no, emotion yes. Isn't his strong emotional attachment to Kanye why he's not "outraged"?
It was Messianic Jewish ("Jews" for Jesus) temple. So not a temple/synagogue. Straight up a church.
I commented with the same correction before I saw yours! Sorry for the repeat comment fellas! I have seen the messianic church used before by a few politicians on the more religious right to try an “I love Jews” campaign. It’s cringe and when I saw that from Kanye after everything that happened the day before...ughhhh.
That Mike Pence - Jews for Jesus thing after the Tree of Life shooting was 🫠 https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/30/us/mike-pence-rabbi-jacobs.html
Moynihan’s Alex Jones impression is a 10/10
Agreed. Encore, encore!
One point in defense of Kmele and one point of confusion:
1. Kmele says "redemption is better than excommunication" and I think this point is missed by Michael and Matt. Calling someone human garbage, even if they say the execrable things Kanye did, is not a path forward. I hear Michael say all the time that silencing people tends to lead to more extremism not less. He then compares Kanye and Jewish people to drowning puppies. He has committed no crime. And I feel bad for the man. Just like I feel bad for many of the people that hold similarly horrific views on race. I think of Daryl Davis, who converted outright Klan members by having a conversation, by trying to find empathy. That is the approach we should take. The line separating good and evil is through every human heart. We should feel for those that have crossed that line. These are generally people who are at the margins of society and may be unwell. We should help them see their errors and help them if we can. If someone tells me they are flat earther, I don't call them an idiot and write them off. I just think, they are clearly lost. I don't care about Addidas, or clothing lines, or any of that shit. If I owned Addidas, I'd drop him too. But we are talking about our actions on a person to person level.
2. I don't understand why we lament someones path to crazy town and cry over their records or any art. Eli Lake makes this point about Ezra Pound (I'd be curious if he has any changes of heart on Kanye at this point). But I will proudly listen to College Dropout and love every minute of it. The Bass Line in Billie Jean is fantastic, and I will always love it. Huge Ryan Adams fan. I will listen knowing that he says horrific shit, but I don't care all that much. Kanye's view are not my problem, so why waste the tears?
I think some people who are in the throws of an episode are not going to be reasoned with. Lex Fridman tried the approach you propose and it failed. Badly. Suggested listen to Freddie DeBoerg on Honstly about the dangers of ignoring people who are experiencing a very visible disconnect from reality. Explaining things or reasoning to a mentally impaired person is like trying to plug a hole in your boat with your hand. It's futile.
Agree with point #1
I was listening to this yesterday on my drive home sans headphones, stopped to pick up dinner and the place was quiet, only a few other diners. As I was walking out, I accidentally touched my phone’s screen, the pod started playing at the loudest volume with the guys screaming about Hitler, *every* person in the place turns to look at me as if I’m the one screaming out the name Hitler! So thanks guys, now I’m afraid to ever go back to my fave Chinese spot 😂
😂😂😂😂😂😂
We've all had those moments.
Here for you, Kmele!
Just started the podcast, noted Kmele is doing the "reporter when someone has died" voice.
I made the mistake of watching nearly all of the Ye-Jones interview. I am vastly dumber for my efforts and will be quarantining for a week as a precaution.
Couple of points:
The lads wrestle with the contradictions in Ye's statements and try to make sense of it. In the words of one Kmele Foster from ages ago: "The man is completely fucking incoherent."
Ye repeatedly, consistently, and utterly without prompting said things like "There are a loooooot of things that I loooooove about Hitler". However, he never specified anything. The most he said was "you know, Hitler was born a Christian." And yes, he repeatedly said "I love Jewish people. I love all Jewish people", usually immediately before saying something about the "Jewish Media", "Netin'", or one of the Emanuel brothers. Not once did he very make an attempt to reconcile those two sentiments himself. I didn't get the impression that Ye had any great familiarity with white nationalist ideology of culture beyond a couple memes "Hitler good", "Holocaust is a lie", "jewish media". In fairness, Jones quickly changed the subject whenever Ye got started, so maybe he could have expounded at length on the subject.
Edit: basically, Ye has no ideology, has been ostracized from polite society and is now surrounding himself with the worst people. He clearly has a conspiratorial mindset, which has been discussed many times on this show. At one point he said something along the lines of"watch, this very show is proof of the Jewish Media's power. If I get criticized for this show, it's proof that they control what people care about, and have the power to put me in jail and take my money." He also claimed that he walked out of the Tim Pool interview because "The Jewish Media called him 10 minutes before I got there and told him what to say". Ye probably doesn't actually have an anti-Semitic ideology, but he does seem to have sincerely latched onto the belief that all the criticism he gets is orchestrated by the 'Jewish Media'.
Haven't watched it, not gonna watch it. So, is there even a SCINTILLA of a chance Kanye is pulling a Joaquin Phoenix on the planet and this is all a VERY elaborate prank?
A scintilla that he's on a brief pro-Hitler-as-performance-art bender, from which he'll move on shortly? Sure. I didn't get the impression that he was expressing deeply held beliefs so much as just trying to piss everyone off and prove that he can do/say whatever he wants.
I saw the picture of his appearance on Alex Jones, and was just transported back to the Phoenix/Letterman interview. Like, this dude is playing a seriously elaborate prank on the world. I mean, if it is, it would be one of THE most amazing performances of all time. But that kind of act would imply rationality, and I don't think a rational actor would go and take the prank to the point where they sacrificed hundreds of millions (billions?) of dollars. So instead what we have is the sad decline of a crazy person happening in real-time with the world as an audience, which is why I'm grasping at straws. BTW, I have absolutely no emotional investment in Kanye. I guess it's a cultural blind spot, but I literally couldn't name a single song of his. I have to take it on faith when people tell me he's a musical genius. But I do sympathize with Kmele. It's better not to know much if anything about your artistic heroes, in general.
Anytime a sentence begins with something like “ya gotta hand it to Hitler,” just know that it’s going to be bad.
"Ya gotta hand it to Hitler: the thing's gonna blow any second now, so it's him or you."
Kanye seems like he's suffering from florid mania. It can look a lot like schizophrenia. I once sat in on a therapy session with someone suffering with psychotic mania and he pointed to "the four horsemen" who were in the room with him. Clinically, it gets far worse.
Morally, though, the garbage he's spewing should rightly have consequences. I wish similar scrutiny would be applied to the squad for instance.
Though to be sure, the squad is more adept at walking back their antisemitism.
Anyway, I think I understand the sense of mourning Kmele feels though I agree that taking him out of the spotlight is best.
That is a good point. The difference is that the antisemitic members of the squad are smart and not insane, so they are very adept at couching their AS in ways that look much more innocent than it is and can be explained away by their fans (maybe not Omar so much, but she learns from her mistakes).
Totally agree.
I feel for Kmele....I still can't give up my undergrad copies of The Second Sex even though Simone et. al were legit supporters of pedophiles. It's hard when those we love let us down.
I will never stop listening to Morrissey
Never!!!! I just scroll by stories of his bad behavior!
Oh man, Kmele sounds so depressed
It's kinda weird listening to an episode which only has Kmele saying we gotta go once. I feel cheated.
I literally had two teenage girls scratching at the door to have their sleepover space vacated. K & M can review their post-taping rap performance if they so choose.
Hold up, hold up...who was rapping, the girls or K & M? Also, did they do Golddigger?
Come on MM, there is no way the vagina, virgin incel has the capacity for 3 hours of masturbation. That takes a real commitment and a lot of arm strength.
10 minutes tops. 30 seconds watching his name appear in media headlines, 2 minutes watching Kayne and Milo interact (vagina virgin) and 3 minutes for George Clooney because everyone appreciates a classic. It's fun womensplaining male masturbation.
Michael and Matt, not guilty by reason of insanity is an actual thing. To the extent that Kayne is having some sort of psychotic break, it is an excuse for his behavior. To the extent there are sane people exploiting Kayne for their 15 seconds of fame, they are the far more worthy of condemnation than Kayne. That is just my opinion & it is very possible I'm wrong.
Is Kayne a garbage human?
Is Wernher von Braun, often referred to as the father of space travel & father of rocket science, a garbage human?
As a high ranking member of the SS, he was decorated by Hitler twice, including being awarded the Iron Cross for his work on guided missiles. Wernher von Braun handpicked slave labor at Buchenwald.
He was part of a group of 1600 Nazi scientists, engineers & other "experts" the Yanks brought to the USA after WW2 as part of Operation Paperclip. This Apollo program director Sam Phillips, said in the absence of von Braun, he did not believe the United States would have reached the Moon at all.
The backbone of NASA were actual Nazi's, who were never held accountable for their war crimes (most of their identities were kept secret by the US government).
Who gets to condemn? Who should be condemned? It's complicated.
I'm Ashkenazi Jew, I think coercive government power, used for illegitimate purposes, is far more dangerous than a trio of moronic, anti-Semites on the AJ podcast.
Who told you about the obligatory 3 minutes of each masturbation session dedicated to George Clooney? Women aren't supposed to know about trithing.
Chappelle clip referenced, I think. Apparently it only aired as a "director cut" thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLsvH7_EF34
When was this recorded? I can't believe neither the China not Iran protests warranted a mention reading the liner notes. Nevertheless, looking forward to it
Last night after 8 ET. We will be talking China/Iran soon.
Could y'all invite Masih Alinejad on at some point? I just finished her book (belatedly). Powerful! In a fantasy world you'd have MA & Azar Nafisi drinking heavily with the 3 of you....
Fyi it was not a synagogue - it was a messianic church - they are not Jewish it was not a synagogue.
Not for nothing there is absolutely no way a synagogue would let him in at the moment. Synagogues (the majority) are heavily guarded and often have armed security and locked gates. It’s not a place anyone can just walk in.