Many respond to the thought experiment concerning time-traveling to kill baby Hitler in the affirmative. I want to hear some discussion of whether a time traveler should go back and blow up the hospital in which Hitler's mother was delivering the baby, killing 200 people. Fair exchange to avert Holocaust?
one should go back in time and get Hitler accepted to the Vienna School of Art. That would've probably averted the Holocaust without killing baby Hitler.
I dunno. The time traveller that drugged Ilya long enough to get Sam A out of the way to revert Q to an earlier state and introduce key safeguards to the code, thus averting the Thanksgiving Apocalypse of 2023, gets a pass in my book.
Considering that the underlying purpose of that thought experiment is a choice between utilitarianism or deontological ethics, the answer is pretty clear
If I was faced with a trolley problem where the only options were blowing up Hitler's hospital or doing nothing, I would do nothing since for sure I and my wife and children would cease to exist in the latter as the whole 20th century would be different.
Nov 23, 2023·edited Nov 23, 2023Liked by Matt Welch
I'm reading Lee Kuan Yew's memoir of nation building in Singapore (which is excellent and I'm pretty sure ended up in my book pile after a Fifth recommendation so I'd like to give thanks for that) and within the first few pages came upon this paragraph which made me chuckle:
[he's talking about Israeli military advisers who were brought in to form & train the new country's army - after India and Egypt didn't even acknowledge Singapore's request]:
"I told Keng Swee to proceed with the Israelis, but to keep it from becoming public knowledge for as long as possible so as not to provoke glassroots antipathy from Malay Muslims in Malaysia and Singapore. A small group of Israelis led by colonel Jak Ellazari arrived in November in 1965, followed by a team of six in December. To disguise their presence we called them "Mexicans". They looked swarthy enough."
Here I was thinking “how could this glorious genocide day get any better”, and then more glorious Fif’ content pops into my feed. You lads are really driving a trail of cheers today! This is basically gift of blankets infected with y’all-pox. The lads are gathering together on this glorious day like it’s the massacre of Wounded Three. I hope you’re all getting hammered like it’s General Custard’s last call.
I would've say the same thing except later yesterday my wife and I watched Auntie Lee's Meat Pies on the Scream Box channel. Karen Black, Pat Morita, Michael Berryman and 5 homicidal Playboy Playmates. Now that's good Thanksgiving!
The boys completely dropped the ball in missing the obvious pertinent reference in the discussion of Trump's failure to meet the standards of the historical fascists:
"I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos."
I can't disagree with McCaskill's assessment that Trump lacks any ethos. Whether that makes him worse than Hitler, however, doesn’t seem like something MSNBC should be expending resources exploring.
I agree. It isn't the most piercing analysis in the world, but one thing I think both Trump's supporters and enemies forget is I believe Trump really is a textbook Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He literally does not have thoughts in his head that don't revolve around him.
To say Trump cares about anything other than himself is a misnomer. That can be bad, like in the case of January 6th where he was willing to throw the country into chaos because he couldn't admit he lost a game.
Or it could good as in the case of most other aspects of his presidency where he didn't care enough to meddle in anything enough to screw them up.
Matt, your awe at the tunnels makes me think you’d get a kick out of Colin Furze, a British YouTuber who has built an elaborate bunker under his yard and is now building tunnels from the bunker to his house and workshop: https://youtube.com/@colinfurze?si=JPSlKx8QiWBtdLyU
He has built all sorts of other wacky stuff, too (jet powered kettle, hover bike, remote controlled garbage bin), but the tunnel projects have taken over his page.
This is so crazy when Palestine is the world’s largest recipient of aid from International Organizations and countries including the US. the Palestinian people are among the poorest in the world but Hamas is worth Billions
Guys, I hear you read emails on the podcast but I could not find out how to send my comment via email so I am trying this approach.
I know it seems like everyone is talking about the Israel vs Palestine. I am really trying to understand it myself. I think Colman Hughes has done a good job on his podcasts and I am half way through the Benny morris book. The fact that both sides have an issue with morris kind of tells me you need to pay attention to what he is writing if you want to understand..
My questions is this and I would like your input- on 10/7, 31 Americans were murdered. Why do I not hear anything from the media and most importantly from Washington?
I am kind of channeling this episode from the untouchables.
If you put someone prone (on their stomach) and press down on their back (either hard enough or on someone who is weak or otherwise fucked up), then they can fail to draw in enough oxygen to meet their body’s needs, and eventually they die. The victim can exhale (and therefore can talk) as they’re dying.
Search for the video of Tony Timpa being killed to see a clear example of it (and see how the medic at the end reacts).
It’s not the fentanyl he had, it’s nothing to do with the neck. It’s a simple way to accidentally kill someone when restraining them. And it’s totally the police’s fault because they had no reason to pin him down at all, let alone for that long, and they totally should know that this can happen. (The trainee even asks Chauvin something like “do you think he might have that excited delirium thing going on”. The “excited delirium” thing is a muddle of a term that refers to “dude died in custody”).
You say this is common knowledge, but I didn't see many people saying this at the time, which is odd if it is such common knowledge. A lot of backseat quarterbacking going on regarding a 6'5"? guy who looks very big and strong and won't get in a fucking police cruiser and is giving about a million excuses.
I have seen a lot of cops restrain a lot of people over the years, I don't think I have ever seen them start them on their backs, always face down.
Police are about *enforcement* and forcing people to do stuff (mostly stop what they are doing and come to jail). There needs to be a little less preciousness about how that happens in an era of cameras everywhere.
The leftist model where police ask very nicely for people to come with them and then piss off if they say "no" doesn't work for most of the people you need police for, and if you are forcing people to do stuff some will get hurt/killed.
If my choice is between a few career criminals dying each year due to improper restraints or shit all over my streets and carjackings break-ins galore, I know what I am choosing.
If someone isn’t cuffed, then the police should cuff them from whatever position works best. Things like the “diaphragm law” which (might?) make it illegal to pin someone in certain ways while cuffing them are suicidally dumb. There will be the occasional person who dies being restrained, but that’s life (pro tip: avoid this by not fighting the police).
The issue with Floyd was that he was already cuffed and then was pinned in a prone position for a long period of time (waiting for an ambulance). This is a high risk course of action that can result in death, and there was nothing about the situation that warranted it. Floyd may seem erratic or scary to people who aren’t used to it, but he is forgettably normal for EMS.
LEOs (and EMS) should be subject to (reasonable!) professional standards and accountability. You’re right that few people discuss compression asphyxia in the press or social media. Probably because it’s just too boring.
I watched a couple of the body cams again to make sure I wasn’t missing anything.
He’s in cuffs and he’s not kicking, spitting, or biting. He’s just being loud and not following instructions. I guess they struggle to get him in a squad car, but I’ve struggled almost as much putting a literally dead person in a squad car (I promise we had a good reason to this!).
Couple additional thoughts from the video. One of the officers asks a couple of times to move Floyd to recovery position but is overruled (and still got 3 years). They also were originally going to use a hobble restraint but decided against it.
In an ideal world the George Floyd case would be an educational moment where clear (and reasonable!) post-handcuffs restraint standards were well established (and were sufficiently clear as to make the aforementioned 3 year sentence seem lenient as opposed to ... eh). Instead, at best we learned nothing, and at worst we added unreasonable restraint standards (the “diaphragm bill”, at least as I’ve heard it explained).
There was about 15 minutes of heavy resistance from Floyd after being cuffed. 3+ officers couldn't get him in a squad car. They finally gave up, pinned him, and called for EMS
That’s a problem. But saying that the choice is rampant crime or cracking skulls is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Police need some reform. Mostly they need consequences. So much of this would be solved if the government had the nerve to dissolve public sector unions. You don’t get to unionize against voters.
“Proning” or restraining someone face down results in many of the “in custody deaths” that occur around the county which is why many state and local Emergency Medical Services protocols expressly forbid this technique when dealing with an impaired or otherwise unruly patient. Restrained patients should always be sunny side up (supine for the medical folks out there) with bonus points for sitting up a little bit.
For the “whatabout Fentanyl” crowd there isn’t a great way to subjectively measure levels in someone (especially if they use on the regular). Lot of people doing a lot of drugs these days and it isn’t an automatic death sentence to be high even if it’s a poor lifestyle choice.
Finally, in the spirit of Fifdom open mindedness, I attempted to watch this “documentary.” Lost me at the FBI tampering with evidence and the ambulance being “intentionally delayed.” It goes on like this. In our conspiracy rich information environment stuff like this, while possibly true, has a steep burden of proof. Also turns out the lead interviewer was married to the Minneapolis PD union boss which while maybe not disqualifying is certainly disclosable. Anyway makes 2000 Mules look like Ken Burns Civil War.
I don't recall what MRT stands for. Until recent years I was not into conspiracy theories but like so many things it just feels like from day one there was one sweeping narrative that local state and federal government, media, and activists all agreed to follow. In this case it was cops bad and racist/systemic racism/protests to include violence and destruction at all costs during a pandemic are for the greater good. Somehow everything lined up to support that narrative...... even if it didn't. We weren't allowed to even hear other possibilities (for example, why was the officer video camera footage not released? Why was Floyd only portrayed as a gentle giant when he had prior violent offenses? Or that in his prior arrest he acted the same way? Or that he couldn't breathe WELL before he was on the ground? Why did we not know the police had called for EMS right away?). I don't know if the autopsy was compromised or if the technique they used was legit, but it sure seems like many low income communities of color and police officers have suffered much more than necessary in the years since as a result of the "elites" in charge of this one. I can't imagine anyone willingly going into urban law enforcement for the foreseeable future.
I don’t think the movie indicated the delayed emt response was a conspiracy....rather it showed the police officers called early on for help for this man who complained he could not breathe from the beginning of their interaction.
A more accurate critique on my part would be that the documentary is rife with insinuations that are mostly unproven. It’s the Joe Rogan fallacy: just because we distrust the “narrative” doesn’t automatically mean edgy takes are more likely to be true. Best advice I ever got to avoid being in Mr Chauvin’s shoes is: “You can be wrong or you can be an asshole but don’t ever get caught being both at the same time.”
When the "acceptable" narrative was "proven", angry and threatening marches were happening out side of the courthouse, jury members knew if they found not guilty their city would burn again while msnbc salivated, and politicians to include the President had already condemned him so not sure what was proven beyond a reasonable doubt. We are at such a point in our country where the people who are supposed to seek truth- the media- chase a narrative and deliberately hide facts, so it breeds distrust and conspiracy theories. I don't think Joe Rogan accepts alternate narratives as fact. He just asks questions and lets people tell their stories. I think it is acceptable for stories pf people who gave decades in service to their community of Minneapolis and were silenced on this get to be told.
The "whatabout fentanyl" brigade also annoys me to no end. The (many) people I've seen OD don't move or talk. They're total sacks of potatoes. Even the just-super-high-but-not-ODing are also mute sacks of potatoes. Floyd was moving and talking. He wasn't ODing.
My bright line for proning is whether or not the patient is handcuffed. Until the cuffs are on, I give LEOs a wide leeway in how they subdue people. Anyone who fights the police is rolling the dice with their life (Floyd didn't). Once the cuffs are on (and they were with Floyd), then it's on the LEOs to not accidentally kill the person.
I attempted the Smoke Em podcast, and it was terrible. Not sure I can handle the source material. Policing is hard. But the Floyd case isn't complicated.
Good point on the hard (cuffs) restraint being the line. Obviously (to people who have had to do it) gloves are off until you achieve restraint and the patient/suspect might be prone for some of that (and you might be too!). Policing and field medicine are both really hard and civilians are judgey but when stakes are high there’s some stuff you just can’t fuck up. Another case like this is the fatal Ketamine dosing by Rural Metro medics in Aurora, Colorado. Ketamine is a valuable tool and (my opinion) should be an option, but if you mess it up you can kill somebody. Onus is on the professionals to not make those mistakes and if they happen there has to be accountability. Hard to cut through all the noise sometimes with this stuff but hey that’s why we’re here.
Actually, if you press down on someone’s back while they are prone, they have a higher likelihood of orgasming. Just thrust up in a circular motion while pressing down hard on the lumbar....
The Cher video where she is "straddling a destroyer" was 'If I Could Turn Back Time', not 'Do You Believe in Love'. There's something I learned about that music video from the late, great VH1 series, Pop Up Video, that is still seared into my brain 25+ years later...
Not only is Cher's son, Elijah Allman, in the music video, but she grinds up on him, in her thong! AND HES ONLY 12 YEARS OLD IN THE VIDEO!!! Plus, the video was considered so risque at the time that airing it was banned on MTV until after 9pm and they even had to reshoot the video so a more acceptable version could be aired. I actually searched around to see if there was any mention of the Cher and Son aspect of the video and it seems to have been memory holed. Only verified by watching the original video. Wild, wild stuff.
I wish I was kidding but he's two SFW screenshots from the video:
I always read the bullet points. Omitting bullet points is a form of genocide. #NeverForget
Seconded. No bullet points = war crime
Say what you will about Hitler, but he did kill Hitler.
Happy Thanksgiving!!
Many respond to the thought experiment concerning time-traveling to kill baby Hitler in the affirmative. I want to hear some discussion of whether a time traveler should go back and blow up the hospital in which Hitler's mother was delivering the baby, killing 200 people. Fair exchange to avert Holocaust?
one should go back in time and get Hitler accepted to the Vienna School of Art. That would've probably averted the Holocaust without killing baby Hitler.
The iron-clad rule of time-travel is you should never change the past. It never works out.
I dunno. The time traveller that drugged Ilya long enough to get Sam A out of the way to revert Q to an earlier state and introduce key safeguards to the code, thus averting the Thanksgiving Apocalypse of 2023, gets a pass in my book.
No. That's not how it works.
But how would one who is OK with killing baby Hitler respond?
Considering that the underlying purpose of that thought experiment is a choice between utilitarianism or deontological ethics, the answer is pretty clear
We wouldn't need 5,000 variations of the trolley problem if this stuff was clear and simple.
Do you plan on eventually getting around to making a point?
If I was faced with a trolley problem where the only options were blowing up Hitler's hospital or doing nothing, I would do nothing since for sure I and my wife and children would cease to exist in the latter as the whole 20th century would be different.
As ever, SilverFox316 would be on the case.
https://www.tor.com/2011/08/31/wikihistory/
Hilarious! Happy Thanksgiving!
TFC: It’s a holiday y’all so we’re gonna skip the bullet points.
Also TFC: Just puts the fucking bullet points in paragraph form.
I'm reading Lee Kuan Yew's memoir of nation building in Singapore (which is excellent and I'm pretty sure ended up in my book pile after a Fifth recommendation so I'd like to give thanks for that) and within the first few pages came upon this paragraph which made me chuckle:
[he's talking about Israeli military advisers who were brought in to form & train the new country's army - after India and Egypt didn't even acknowledge Singapore's request]:
"I told Keng Swee to proceed with the Israelis, but to keep it from becoming public knowledge for as long as possible so as not to provoke glassroots antipathy from Malay Muslims in Malaysia and Singapore. A small group of Israelis led by colonel Jak Ellazari arrived in November in 1965, followed by a team of six in December. To disguise their presence we called them "Mexicans". They looked swarthy enough."
Here I was thinking “how could this glorious genocide day get any better”, and then more glorious Fif’ content pops into my feed. You lads are really driving a trail of cheers today! This is basically gift of blankets infected with y’all-pox. The lads are gathering together on this glorious day like it’s the massacre of Wounded Three. I hope you’re all getting hammered like it’s General Custard’s last call.
Hehe...y'all pox....Massacre of Wounded Three....nicely done :-D
Happy Thanksgiving, lads. This is the highlight of my day. Yes, really.
I would’ve agreed with this a few hours ago but I played charades with a 5 year old tonight and that was pretty rad.
Happy T-Day Fifdom!
I would've say the same thing except later yesterday my wife and I watched Auntie Lee's Meat Pies on the Scream Box channel. Karen Black, Pat Morita, Michael Berryman and 5 homicidal Playboy Playmates. Now that's good Thanksgiving!
Chris, let's get you some family and friends to spend your day with.
Kmele has never offered to play match maker for Fifth Column listeners. Yet another point in Spencer's favor.
They’ve all got someone else. Still, that’s fine. I’m fine.
At least you've got the commentariat.
It’s a thanksgiving miracle.
The boys completely dropped the ball in missing the obvious pertinent reference in the discussion of Trump's failure to meet the standards of the historical fascists:
"I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos."
I can't disagree with McCaskill's assessment that Trump lacks any ethos. Whether that makes him worse than Hitler, however, doesn’t seem like something MSNBC should be expending resources exploring.
I agree. It isn't the most piercing analysis in the world, but one thing I think both Trump's supporters and enemies forget is I believe Trump really is a textbook Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He literally does not have thoughts in his head that don't revolve around him.
To say Trump cares about anything other than himself is a misnomer. That can be bad, like in the case of January 6th where he was willing to throw the country into chaos because he couldn't admit he lost a game.
Or it could good as in the case of most other aspects of his presidency where he didn't care enough to meddle in anything enough to screw them up.
I was coming here to reference that line, but knew I needed to search the existing comments, first.
Thankful for you lads!
Matt, your awe at the tunnels makes me think you’d get a kick out of Colin Furze, a British YouTuber who has built an elaborate bunker under his yard and is now building tunnels from the bunker to his house and workshop: https://youtube.com/@colinfurze?si=JPSlKx8QiWBtdLyU
He has built all sorts of other wacky stuff, too (jet powered kettle, hover bike, remote controlled garbage bin), but the tunnel projects have taken over his page.
Amazing that another fifth episode came out before the food was ready 🥲
Turkyin’ for the Weekend
I thought that BBC article was going to be the worst bit of media from last week, but then this happened - https://twitter.com/EylonALevy/status/1727647670716518677
I think we have a responsibility to shut Britain down.
Happy Thanksgiving!
My face and that dude's did the exact same thing at the same time and I felt *seen*. That is for sure the most braindead take I've seen this week.
This is so crazy when Palestine is the world’s largest recipient of aid from International Organizations and countries including the US. the Palestinian people are among the poorest in the world but Hamas is worth Billions
https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2023/11/20/inside-hamass-sprawling-financial-empireInside Hamas’s sprawling financial empire from TheEconomist
Happy Thanksgiving to all,
Guys, I hear you read emails on the podcast but I could not find out how to send my comment via email so I am trying this approach.
I know it seems like everyone is talking about the Israel vs Palestine. I am really trying to understand it myself. I think Colman Hughes has done a good job on his podcasts and I am half way through the Benny morris book. The fact that both sides have an issue with morris kind of tells me you need to pay attention to what he is writing if you want to understand..
My questions is this and I would like your input- on 10/7, 31 Americans were murdered. Why do I not hear anything from the media and most importantly from Washington?
I am kind of channeling this episode from the untouchables.
https://youtu.be/dgoDvnebHRw?si=oRlN2rB6dUIFarzN
I have my thoughts on why but since I hear nothing being discussed about it, I need some other input
Hello, Joe! You may find this useful in the future: the lads can be contacted via email at mailto:wethefifth@substack.com
Happy Thanksgiving!
Thank you for this. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family
George Floyd was killed by compression asphyxia.
If you put someone prone (on their stomach) and press down on their back (either hard enough or on someone who is weak or otherwise fucked up), then they can fail to draw in enough oxygen to meet their body’s needs, and eventually they die. The victim can exhale (and therefore can talk) as they’re dying.
Search for the video of Tony Timpa being killed to see a clear example of it (and see how the medic at the end reacts).
It’s not the fentanyl he had, it’s nothing to do with the neck. It’s a simple way to accidentally kill someone when restraining them. And it’s totally the police’s fault because they had no reason to pin him down at all, let alone for that long, and they totally should know that this can happen. (The trainee even asks Chauvin something like “do you think he might have that excited delirium thing going on”. The “excited delirium” thing is a muddle of a term that refers to “dude died in custody”).
You say this is common knowledge, but I didn't see many people saying this at the time, which is odd if it is such common knowledge. A lot of backseat quarterbacking going on regarding a 6'5"? guy who looks very big and strong and won't get in a fucking police cruiser and is giving about a million excuses.
I have seen a lot of cops restrain a lot of people over the years, I don't think I have ever seen them start them on their backs, always face down.
Police are about *enforcement* and forcing people to do stuff (mostly stop what they are doing and come to jail). There needs to be a little less preciousness about how that happens in an era of cameras everywhere.
The leftist model where police ask very nicely for people to come with them and then piss off if they say "no" doesn't work for most of the people you need police for, and if you are forcing people to do stuff some will get hurt/killed.
If my choice is between a few career criminals dying each year due to improper restraints or shit all over my streets and carjackings break-ins galore, I know what I am choosing.
If someone isn’t cuffed, then the police should cuff them from whatever position works best. Things like the “diaphragm law” which (might?) make it illegal to pin someone in certain ways while cuffing them are suicidally dumb. There will be the occasional person who dies being restrained, but that’s life (pro tip: avoid this by not fighting the police).
The issue with Floyd was that he was already cuffed and then was pinned in a prone position for a long period of time (waiting for an ambulance). This is a high risk course of action that can result in death, and there was nothing about the situation that warranted it. Floyd may seem erratic or scary to people who aren’t used to it, but he is forgettably normal for EMS.
LEOs (and EMS) should be subject to (reasonable!) professional standards and accountability. You’re right that few people discuss compression asphyxia in the press or social media. Probably because it’s just too boring.
I watched a couple of the body cams again to make sure I wasn’t missing anything.
He’s in cuffs and he’s not kicking, spitting, or biting. He’s just being loud and not following instructions. I guess they struggle to get him in a squad car, but I’ve struggled almost as much putting a literally dead person in a squad car (I promise we had a good reason to this!).
Couple additional thoughts from the video. One of the officers asks a couple of times to move Floyd to recovery position but is overruled (and still got 3 years). They also were originally going to use a hobble restraint but decided against it.
In an ideal world the George Floyd case would be an educational moment where clear (and reasonable!) post-handcuffs restraint standards were well established (and were sufficiently clear as to make the aforementioned 3 year sentence seem lenient as opposed to ... eh). Instead, at best we learned nothing, and at worst we added unreasonable restraint standards (the “diaphragm bill”, at least as I’ve heard it explained).
He starts kicking at the officers just prior to being restrained
There was about 15 minutes of heavy resistance from Floyd after being cuffed. 3+ officers couldn't get him in a squad car. They finally gave up, pinned him, and called for EMS
You should watch the film in question
I tried to get #increasedintrathorassicpressureresultingindangeroushyootensionfromcompressedvenacava to trend on “X” but not catchy enough.
Fair enough!
The goal is to not have to choose between accidental summary executions and getting routinely car jacked. We should dream big here Martin!
Right now police reform seems to stand a lot more for allowing car jackings than fixing minor details of restraints.
That’s a problem. But saying that the choice is rampant crime or cracking skulls is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Police need some reform. Mostly they need consequences. So much of this would be solved if the government had the nerve to dissolve public sector unions. You don’t get to unionize against voters.
Oh I totally agree police reform is necessary and important.
I just think that the groups in charge of reform are mostly idiots making the world worse, so the status quo circa 2000 is preferable.
“Proning” or restraining someone face down results in many of the “in custody deaths” that occur around the county which is why many state and local Emergency Medical Services protocols expressly forbid this technique when dealing with an impaired or otherwise unruly patient. Restrained patients should always be sunny side up (supine for the medical folks out there) with bonus points for sitting up a little bit.
For the “whatabout Fentanyl” crowd there isn’t a great way to subjectively measure levels in someone (especially if they use on the regular). Lot of people doing a lot of drugs these days and it isn’t an automatic death sentence to be high even if it’s a poor lifestyle choice.
Finally, in the spirit of Fifdom open mindedness, I attempted to watch this “documentary.” Lost me at the FBI tampering with evidence and the ambulance being “intentionally delayed.” It goes on like this. In our conspiracy rich information environment stuff like this, while possibly true, has a steep burden of proof. Also turns out the lead interviewer was married to the Minneapolis PD union boss which while maybe not disqualifying is certainly disclosable. Anyway makes 2000 Mules look like Ken Burns Civil War.
There were conspiracy threads in there that were quackish for sure, but did you get to the part where perjury is committed during the trial over MRT?
I don't recall what MRT stands for. Until recent years I was not into conspiracy theories but like so many things it just feels like from day one there was one sweeping narrative that local state and federal government, media, and activists all agreed to follow. In this case it was cops bad and racist/systemic racism/protests to include violence and destruction at all costs during a pandemic are for the greater good. Somehow everything lined up to support that narrative...... even if it didn't. We weren't allowed to even hear other possibilities (for example, why was the officer video camera footage not released? Why was Floyd only portrayed as a gentle giant when he had prior violent offenses? Or that in his prior arrest he acted the same way? Or that he couldn't breathe WELL before he was on the ground? Why did we not know the police had called for EMS right away?). I don't know if the autopsy was compromised or if the technique they used was legit, but it sure seems like many low income communities of color and police officers have suffered much more than necessary in the years since as a result of the "elites" in charge of this one. I can't imagine anyone willingly going into urban law enforcement for the foreseeable future.
I don’t think the movie indicated the delayed emt response was a conspiracy....rather it showed the police officers called early on for help for this man who complained he could not breathe from the beginning of their interaction.
A more accurate critique on my part would be that the documentary is rife with insinuations that are mostly unproven. It’s the Joe Rogan fallacy: just because we distrust the “narrative” doesn’t automatically mean edgy takes are more likely to be true. Best advice I ever got to avoid being in Mr Chauvin’s shoes is: “You can be wrong or you can be an asshole but don’t ever get caught being both at the same time.”
When the "acceptable" narrative was "proven", angry and threatening marches were happening out side of the courthouse, jury members knew if they found not guilty their city would burn again while msnbc salivated, and politicians to include the President had already condemned him so not sure what was proven beyond a reasonable doubt. We are at such a point in our country where the people who are supposed to seek truth- the media- chase a narrative and deliberately hide facts, so it breeds distrust and conspiracy theories. I don't think Joe Rogan accepts alternate narratives as fact. He just asks questions and lets people tell their stories. I think it is acceptable for stories pf people who gave decades in service to their community of Minneapolis and were silenced on this get to be told.
The "whatabout fentanyl" brigade also annoys me to no end. The (many) people I've seen OD don't move or talk. They're total sacks of potatoes. Even the just-super-high-but-not-ODing are also mute sacks of potatoes. Floyd was moving and talking. He wasn't ODing.
My bright line for proning is whether or not the patient is handcuffed. Until the cuffs are on, I give LEOs a wide leeway in how they subdue people. Anyone who fights the police is rolling the dice with their life (Floyd didn't). Once the cuffs are on (and they were with Floyd), then it's on the LEOs to not accidentally kill the person.
I attempted the Smoke Em podcast, and it was terrible. Not sure I can handle the source material. Policing is hard. But the Floyd case isn't complicated.
Good point on the hard (cuffs) restraint being the line. Obviously (to people who have had to do it) gloves are off until you achieve restraint and the patient/suspect might be prone for some of that (and you might be too!). Policing and field medicine are both really hard and civilians are judgey but when stakes are high there’s some stuff you just can’t fuck up. Another case like this is the fatal Ketamine dosing by Rural Metro medics in Aurora, Colorado. Ketamine is a valuable tool and (my opinion) should be an option, but if you mess it up you can kill somebody. Onus is on the professionals to not make those mistakes and if they happen there has to be accountability. Hard to cut through all the noise sometimes with this stuff but hey that’s why we’re here.
Actually, if you press down on someone’s back while they are prone, they have a higher likelihood of orgasming. Just thrust up in a circular motion while pressing down hard on the lumbar....
So awkward when you’re trying to knock someone off and you accidentally get them off instead.
Upper back, where the lungs are. Or both, if you’re into that. Now I need to see if anyone has gotten Carradined doing that.
Regarding Cher straddling a destroyer.
The Cher video where she is "straddling a destroyer" was 'If I Could Turn Back Time', not 'Do You Believe in Love'. There's something I learned about that music video from the late, great VH1 series, Pop Up Video, that is still seared into my brain 25+ years later...
Not only is Cher's son, Elijah Allman, in the music video, but she grinds up on him, in her thong! AND HES ONLY 12 YEARS OLD IN THE VIDEO!!! Plus, the video was considered so risque at the time that airing it was banned on MTV until after 9pm and they even had to reshoot the video so a more acceptable version could be aired. I actually searched around to see if there was any mention of the Cher and Son aspect of the video and it seems to have been memory holed. Only verified by watching the original video. Wild, wild stuff.
I wish I was kidding but he's two SFW screenshots from the video:
https://i.imgur.com/ZnhaIEe.png
https://i.imgur.com/48XIy3g.png
Looks tamer in the screenshots than live. Plus her thong ass is facing him for much of the video when she's dancing about.