I agree with Moynihan on the Spanish/English thing. I work in a school with a lot of migrants, and the students' parents straight up refuse to speak a lick of English. They won't even learn phrases that would make everyone's lives easier, such as "I want to pick up my child" "She's in X grade" "His teacher is ______"
They could literally type a sentence into their phones before walking into the office to translate a question, but no. They just walk in and say "Spanish" and then make us call a translator or employ our own stunted Spanish to extract a response from them. It's honestly infuriating. Not because they cannot speak English well, but because they won't even try. It's rude.
I haven't listened to the episode yet, but it's worth noting (in case they didn't mention it) that those people's grand kids will probably end up speaking about as much Spanish as the rest of us.
The usual trend is that immigrants learn enough English to get by, their kids are pretty bi-lingual, but their grand kids only know a handful of phrases, if that.
Yeah. I know. In the meantime their children are in the care of people who don't speak a ton of Spanish, and it's not difficult to have a few key words and phrases in your lexicon when you're sending your children off to school and may find yourself in need of communicating with English speakers for the purposes of caring for your child- it's especially not that hard given modern technology. And my point was they many of the people I encounter aren't even learning the 'enough to get by' English.
As a disclaimer in case I came across as overly grumpy- I am not a fist shaking "Speak English in America!!!" kind of person (though obviously people who can communicate fluently in English will be better off, so it's a good idea), and I am pro-immigration. But I am also very pro-assimilation.
I often have to hope the child is a good kid when speaking to parents. Forget about the kids who aren't great and how their parents are involved (or uninvolved)
Michael Moynihan's gloriously on-point rant against mobster unionism and brain-dead idealization of the "working class" has to be one of the better moments in Fifdom history. The only thing missing, and I know she's your guys' friend and all but still, was Batya. In fact, maybe you could bring her on and play the whole thing back for her to give her a chance to respond. Not for her, but for us, your ever loyal paying listeners. The entertainment value would add weeks and maybe months to the lifespans of your most depressive, messed up listeners, and you wouldn't even have to be mean to her. Sure, it might seem like a bit of a moral compromise, but you guys regularly appear with Megyn Lake, I mean Kelly, so that ship has already sailed. Anyhow, peace out, one and all.
Thank you for once again calling bullshit on the temporary moral panic around Georgia voter laws that caused MLB to move the All-Star game from Atlanta in 2021. That was a shot with two chasers:
(1) The Braves went on to win the World Series that same year, and
(2) Guess what city has been awarded the 2025 All-Star game
I will never support unions until there is a reasonable way to fire people. I have watched the most amazing fuck ups and lack of doing anything approaching job, but at the end of the day, the person is union and impossible to fire. It's god damn offensive
I was a foreman in union pipeline construction and trying to fire an employee was near impossible, I was repeatedly told to make it work, move him to a different position. I had a few guys who actually hide to talk on their phones while major construction was happening. Couldn’t fire them. Move them around was the orders. Eventually drove me out of the union into inspection. At this point I see no value in unions. I was a member for 15 years and it’s great when you’re a grunt but when you’re in a position of responsibility it’s a never ending headache. Pipeline construction is a serious construction endeavor and the fuck offs that I couldn’t fire was wild!
You all again are too reasonable to get that fired up about. But some things that have come to mind so far.
1. Trump said he was not going to concede in like October to Jack Smith. Sure that is more official, that isn’t some headline/rally line, but also he wouldn’t commit to a peaceful transfer before then. He already was pissed off about coverage. Already complaining about election rule changes. Procedure. Mail ins. Etc. I am not saying that it doesn’t matter it does, I am just slightly confused how this is some big new revelation.
2. On Jan 6th. Agree with Michael that people could take the tact of “Harris is still worse”. But also, Jan 6th was bad. Very very bad. I just still think I am in a realm where it is less bad than people are making it out to be. Part of that is because it has been called an insurrection for 4 years and I still think that is still a wild characterization. Part is because I have comparable riots to juxtapose them against. Yes, I know the “comparable riots” I am using aren’t political, transfer of power riots; however, they’re still socially destabilizing, meaning destabilizing to the structure of our society, creating a society I do not want to live in. And, while during Jan 6th I was glued to my TV with a pit in my stomach wondering what in the fuck was going on, for the *BLM* riots of 2020 I stopped walking my dog after 8pm for years. Coworkers and friends in nice neighborhoods (Chicago) like Gold Coast and Lincoln Park and Streeterville got mugged in broad daylight. My parents sold their home at a 10% loss just to move. My cousins all moved. My brothers both moved. My aunt and uncle moved. I am literally 1 of 3 people in my extended family remaining in Chicago. And as of 2019 there were 20+ of us. I still to this day am constantly more aware of my surroundings and more at unease when out at night. There still are also remnants of that year remaining too. Just groups taking over streets not giving a fuck what police say or do if they turn up. Walked out of Bub City in River North like a year ago- 18 months ago and there was just a 15 on 15 brawl in the middle of the street with maybe 100 people watching with cell phones out. No police intervention. Just happened. Stayed inside for about 15mins then people started to disperse and I got the hell out. Lived in Chicago/Chicago area my entire life. I don’t remember that stuff happening before 2020. My ultimate point is yes, Jan 6th was really really bad. Very bad for our political process. But, when I think of what was worse AT THE TIME in terms of physical damage, destruction, disruption, general mayhem, easily the BLM riots, like 10,000 to 1 worse, not even remotely close. Then, when I think of what was worse for me personally, BLM riots by 1Mx. Jan 6th never had an iota of an effect on me. Was an uncomfortable time watching tv for a few hours. Then, when I think of what was worse for society overall moving forward, BLM riots by let’s say 5X. Definitely the closest call. Trump fucking with presidential/election norms cannot be discounted, that can have a knock on effect for decades potentially and destabilize our entire election procedure. I get that. Also, BLM destabilized the entire notion of a rule of law. Destabilized the notion of peaceful protest being useful, actually directly contradicted it from the heads of the movement and from a lot of powerful people saying peaceful protest was actually useless and violent unrest was the only route to produce real change. Further, you had entire news outlets supporting the riots. Lending them cover. You had politicians supporting the riots and lending them cover. You had celebrities supporting them and lending them cover. You had universities and professors supporting them and lending them cover. Hell, you had the medical professionals (where you’d think would have zero crossover) supporting them and lending them cover. You know how seemingly 90% of talking heads and people generally (even if they’ll talk around the point) will generally get to, “Jan 6th, boy that wasn’t good! Shouldn’t do that again!” or some similar sentiment. That is exactly what the response should have been and how the rioters should have been treated for BLM riots. Instead we got “but, what do they have to say?” And “can we understand why they’re doing this?” And “what are the root causes here?” And “people don’t just act out like this if there isn’t a real problem” and 100,000 other think pieces attempting to legitimize or at least lessen the impact of absolutely horrific that period in history was and how poorly the people who were a part of it acted. THAT is why I think less of Jan 6th than I probably should. Not because I lowered it on the scale of bad shit, but because my scale for how bad things really can get just got extended through the roof and Jan 6th being at the ceiling now suddenly doesn’t look so bad in comparison.
Which ties in to why I will probably vote for Trump over Harris although I hate them both and have said maybe 100 times now over years that I wish Trump drove off a cliff and was never seen again. Trump was VERY involved with Jan 6th and hell he spearheaded the election denial, that was all him. Harris on the other hand has a career lending support and providing cover for the BLM riots. And I use career because I do not just mean the bail fund. I mean her political career before and since 2020 lending credence to the fundamental ideology behind the riots. The oppressor/oppressed, victim/victimizer, post modern power focused outlook of society. It’s seen even in her insistence on equity over equality. Can be seen when she talks about price gouging. Can be seen when she’s talking about Israel/Gaza.
I will take the wild card that is Trumps crazy, dumb ass before I could ever get myself to support someone with that fundamentally poisonous/cancerous worldview.
And as a little P.S. the fundamental worldview of power politics/oppressor oppressed that drove BLM riots is also seen still to this day and for the past year in the Gaza protests. It’s seen in every student flying a Hamas flag. Every school administrator, politician, or institution that is providing cover for them. Every person even to a lesser scale that won’t separate the wheat from the chaff. Like even 99% of republicans (at least 100% that I know), if being asked about a protest they fully support, let’s say against illegal immigration, get cornered with “did you know there was a guy marching with a swastika at that protest?? Did you?”, they’d respond with “that guy is a despicable piece of trash. I don’t agree with them on anything. They’re a horrible, foul person. But I am still against illegal immigration and support the protest”. On the other side with Hamas flags and Brooklyn Flood events or whatever else, I see an incredibly shocking percentage of people who fail to even be able to make that separation. I have seen a shocking number (seemingly a weekly event ideologically minus the death) of Charlottesvilles over the last year. And an even more shocking number of people who cannot condemn them based on being infected with this cancerous ideology.
Before Jan 6th Trump was hammered on Charlottesville rightfully so. Biden/Harris have had many more Charlottesvilles (including death this time) than Trump. So I see no separation there. On Jan 6th Trump was hammered also rightfully so. But I’m mentally stacking Jan 6th rioting next to BLM rioting. And id prefer Trump spearheading a second Jan 6th to any rendition of BLM occurring again. And BLM with Harris at the helm strikes me as nightmare fuel. So again, Jan 6th is just not pulling the weight with me that it seemingly is pulling with everyone else. And I do believe I am seeing it clearly, I do believe it is one of the worst days in specifically American politics in decades. I think Trump holds a ton of responsibility before it, right up to where I blame him, but I cannot get to he directly incited it. But I certainly do blame him for fanning the flames, and maybe getting some fuel on the logs. And even with all of that, it does nothing to switch my vote from Trump TO Harris. The “to” there is enormous as I’d vote for 10,000 people including my own 76 year old father before I voted for Harris (as well as real options). I really just think she is absolutely abysmal.
Agree with much of what you say. However, I think the guys were making the case that it was not just his actions on Jan 6th that disqualify Trump but everything he did in the two months after the election—the fake elector schemes, the “find some votes” phone call to Georgia, etc.
I have an outdoor pizza oven, and I ain't rich. It was an unemployment project to keep myself productive between jobs last summer. A pallet of bricks is relatively cheap, it's the labor that's expensive.
Very good commentary from Michael on unions. I have covered them for much of my career. Anyone who’s ever been around a real old school union protest knows the correlation with Marxism as Michael mentioned. Go look at a BLM protest and then a union protest. Shouting, slogans, bullhorns, insults, planned chants, posters, collectivization nonsense and in many respects….violence. If you don’t go along, you’re a “scab” and off with your head. They literally have 50 foot inflatable rats towering over job sites. Oppressor versus Oppressed. It’s one and the same. Unions can be amazing. And of course we’re talking private sector right now, I think most people here understand the insanity of public sector unions. I have found that most people say the biggest value of their union is scheduling & work/life balance, which union shop heads can negotiate and help mandate, if left up to middle management at (insert any corporation)….they simply don’t give a fuck about that stuff. Unions be useful but also can be painfully out of touch and led by out of touch people who haven’t had real jobs in decades.
The tactics of the UAW are not that different from what the longshoremen are/were doing. If the UAW strikes, any business and anyone who is employed by those businesses have to take haircut. The union knows this and they use that fact to put pressure on the companies they are negotiating with. None of those businesses or their employees are made whole, when the strike ends. It’s a hostage situation. That type of tactic is why people have a sour taste in their mouth, when unions come up.
Re: Matt’s Vinny “The Chin” Gigante reference, at least as of 2012 the ILA had a one of Gigante’s nephews and two of his sons-in-law on the payroll, with each pulling down about $400k.
Daggett has also been charged twice with racketeering, with Genovese family members as co-defendants (one of whom disappeared during trial only to turn up partially decomposed in the trunk of a car).
He also makes over $1M (the boys slightly undersold it), and each of his two sons takes jn over $600k.
Nice work if you can get it.
See Lee Fang’s article on his Substack (h/t Liz Wolfe):
I agree with Moynihan on the Spanish/English thing. I work in a school with a lot of migrants, and the students' parents straight up refuse to speak a lick of English. They won't even learn phrases that would make everyone's lives easier, such as "I want to pick up my child" "She's in X grade" "His teacher is ______"
They could literally type a sentence into their phones before walking into the office to translate a question, but no. They just walk in and say "Spanish" and then make us call a translator or employ our own stunted Spanish to extract a response from them. It's honestly infuriating. Not because they cannot speak English well, but because they won't even try. It's rude.
I haven't listened to the episode yet, but it's worth noting (in case they didn't mention it) that those people's grand kids will probably end up speaking about as much Spanish as the rest of us.
The usual trend is that immigrants learn enough English to get by, their kids are pretty bi-lingual, but their grand kids only know a handful of phrases, if that.
Yeah. I know. In the meantime their children are in the care of people who don't speak a ton of Spanish, and it's not difficult to have a few key words and phrases in your lexicon when you're sending your children off to school and may find yourself in need of communicating with English speakers for the purposes of caring for your child- it's especially not that hard given modern technology. And my point was they many of the people I encounter aren't even learning the 'enough to get by' English.
As a disclaimer in case I came across as overly grumpy- I am not a fist shaking "Speak English in America!!!" kind of person (though obviously people who can communicate fluently in English will be better off, so it's a good idea), and I am pro-immigration. But I am also very pro-assimilation.
I often have to hope the child is a good kid when speaking to parents. Forget about the kids who aren't great and how their parents are involved (or uninvolved)
Michael Moynihan's gloriously on-point rant against mobster unionism and brain-dead idealization of the "working class" has to be one of the better moments in Fifdom history. The only thing missing, and I know she's your guys' friend and all but still, was Batya. In fact, maybe you could bring her on and play the whole thing back for her to give her a chance to respond. Not for her, but for us, your ever loyal paying listeners. The entertainment value would add weeks and maybe months to the lifespans of your most depressive, messed up listeners, and you wouldn't even have to be mean to her. Sure, it might seem like a bit of a moral compromise, but you guys regularly appear with Megyn Lake, I mean Kelly, so that ship has already sailed. Anyhow, peace out, one and all.
Batya would be great on this one 😮
Thank you for once again calling bullshit on the temporary moral panic around Georgia voter laws that caused MLB to move the All-Star game from Atlanta in 2021. That was a shot with two chasers:
(1) The Braves went on to win the World Series that same year, and
(2) Guess what city has been awarded the 2025 All-Star game
You can't talk about Rotterdam, ports, and automation without mentioning The Wire.
https://youtu.be/NH365sfgZOw?feature=shared
I always think of Frank when longshoremen are discussed!
Bravo, Gents! Great episode & pleasant reminder of why I'm a paying sub
Matt, you will probably be the only person to get this, but Tuddy Balsamo definitely knew what fell off the trucks at the port.
That’s a Carroll gardens deep cut
I will never support unions until there is a reasonable way to fire people. I have watched the most amazing fuck ups and lack of doing anything approaching job, but at the end of the day, the person is union and impossible to fire. It's god damn offensive
I was a foreman in union pipeline construction and trying to fire an employee was near impossible, I was repeatedly told to make it work, move him to a different position. I had a few guys who actually hide to talk on their phones while major construction was happening. Couldn’t fire them. Move them around was the orders. Eventually drove me out of the union into inspection. At this point I see no value in unions. I was a member for 15 years and it’s great when you’re a grunt but when you’re in a position of responsibility it’s a never ending headache. Pipeline construction is a serious construction endeavor and the fuck offs that I couldn’t fire was wild!
It's not racist, guys. Don't worry. It's just xenophobic.
You all again are too reasonable to get that fired up about. But some things that have come to mind so far.
1. Trump said he was not going to concede in like October to Jack Smith. Sure that is more official, that isn’t some headline/rally line, but also he wouldn’t commit to a peaceful transfer before then. He already was pissed off about coverage. Already complaining about election rule changes. Procedure. Mail ins. Etc. I am not saying that it doesn’t matter it does, I am just slightly confused how this is some big new revelation.
2. On Jan 6th. Agree with Michael that people could take the tact of “Harris is still worse”. But also, Jan 6th was bad. Very very bad. I just still think I am in a realm where it is less bad than people are making it out to be. Part of that is because it has been called an insurrection for 4 years and I still think that is still a wild characterization. Part is because I have comparable riots to juxtapose them against. Yes, I know the “comparable riots” I am using aren’t political, transfer of power riots; however, they’re still socially destabilizing, meaning destabilizing to the structure of our society, creating a society I do not want to live in. And, while during Jan 6th I was glued to my TV with a pit in my stomach wondering what in the fuck was going on, for the *BLM* riots of 2020 I stopped walking my dog after 8pm for years. Coworkers and friends in nice neighborhoods (Chicago) like Gold Coast and Lincoln Park and Streeterville got mugged in broad daylight. My parents sold their home at a 10% loss just to move. My cousins all moved. My brothers both moved. My aunt and uncle moved. I am literally 1 of 3 people in my extended family remaining in Chicago. And as of 2019 there were 20+ of us. I still to this day am constantly more aware of my surroundings and more at unease when out at night. There still are also remnants of that year remaining too. Just groups taking over streets not giving a fuck what police say or do if they turn up. Walked out of Bub City in River North like a year ago- 18 months ago and there was just a 15 on 15 brawl in the middle of the street with maybe 100 people watching with cell phones out. No police intervention. Just happened. Stayed inside for about 15mins then people started to disperse and I got the hell out. Lived in Chicago/Chicago area my entire life. I don’t remember that stuff happening before 2020. My ultimate point is yes, Jan 6th was really really bad. Very bad for our political process. But, when I think of what was worse AT THE TIME in terms of physical damage, destruction, disruption, general mayhem, easily the BLM riots, like 10,000 to 1 worse, not even remotely close. Then, when I think of what was worse for me personally, BLM riots by 1Mx. Jan 6th never had an iota of an effect on me. Was an uncomfortable time watching tv for a few hours. Then, when I think of what was worse for society overall moving forward, BLM riots by let’s say 5X. Definitely the closest call. Trump fucking with presidential/election norms cannot be discounted, that can have a knock on effect for decades potentially and destabilize our entire election procedure. I get that. Also, BLM destabilized the entire notion of a rule of law. Destabilized the notion of peaceful protest being useful, actually directly contradicted it from the heads of the movement and from a lot of powerful people saying peaceful protest was actually useless and violent unrest was the only route to produce real change. Further, you had entire news outlets supporting the riots. Lending them cover. You had politicians supporting the riots and lending them cover. You had celebrities supporting them and lending them cover. You had universities and professors supporting them and lending them cover. Hell, you had the medical professionals (where you’d think would have zero crossover) supporting them and lending them cover. You know how seemingly 90% of talking heads and people generally (even if they’ll talk around the point) will generally get to, “Jan 6th, boy that wasn’t good! Shouldn’t do that again!” or some similar sentiment. That is exactly what the response should have been and how the rioters should have been treated for BLM riots. Instead we got “but, what do they have to say?” And “can we understand why they’re doing this?” And “what are the root causes here?” And “people don’t just act out like this if there isn’t a real problem” and 100,000 other think pieces attempting to legitimize or at least lessen the impact of absolutely horrific that period in history was and how poorly the people who were a part of it acted. THAT is why I think less of Jan 6th than I probably should. Not because I lowered it on the scale of bad shit, but because my scale for how bad things really can get just got extended through the roof and Jan 6th being at the ceiling now suddenly doesn’t look so bad in comparison.
Which ties in to why I will probably vote for Trump over Harris although I hate them both and have said maybe 100 times now over years that I wish Trump drove off a cliff and was never seen again. Trump was VERY involved with Jan 6th and hell he spearheaded the election denial, that was all him. Harris on the other hand has a career lending support and providing cover for the BLM riots. And I use career because I do not just mean the bail fund. I mean her political career before and since 2020 lending credence to the fundamental ideology behind the riots. The oppressor/oppressed, victim/victimizer, post modern power focused outlook of society. It’s seen even in her insistence on equity over equality. Can be seen when she talks about price gouging. Can be seen when she’s talking about Israel/Gaza.
I will take the wild card that is Trumps crazy, dumb ass before I could ever get myself to support someone with that fundamentally poisonous/cancerous worldview.
And as a little P.S. the fundamental worldview of power politics/oppressor oppressed that drove BLM riots is also seen still to this day and for the past year in the Gaza protests. It’s seen in every student flying a Hamas flag. Every school administrator, politician, or institution that is providing cover for them. Every person even to a lesser scale that won’t separate the wheat from the chaff. Like even 99% of republicans (at least 100% that I know), if being asked about a protest they fully support, let’s say against illegal immigration, get cornered with “did you know there was a guy marching with a swastika at that protest?? Did you?”, they’d respond with “that guy is a despicable piece of trash. I don’t agree with them on anything. They’re a horrible, foul person. But I am still against illegal immigration and support the protest”. On the other side with Hamas flags and Brooklyn Flood events or whatever else, I see an incredibly shocking percentage of people who fail to even be able to make that separation. I have seen a shocking number (seemingly a weekly event ideologically minus the death) of Charlottesvilles over the last year. And an even more shocking number of people who cannot condemn them based on being infected with this cancerous ideology.
Before Jan 6th Trump was hammered on Charlottesville rightfully so. Biden/Harris have had many more Charlottesvilles (including death this time) than Trump. So I see no separation there. On Jan 6th Trump was hammered also rightfully so. But I’m mentally stacking Jan 6th rioting next to BLM rioting. And id prefer Trump spearheading a second Jan 6th to any rendition of BLM occurring again. And BLM with Harris at the helm strikes me as nightmare fuel. So again, Jan 6th is just not pulling the weight with me that it seemingly is pulling with everyone else. And I do believe I am seeing it clearly, I do believe it is one of the worst days in specifically American politics in decades. I think Trump holds a ton of responsibility before it, right up to where I blame him, but I cannot get to he directly incited it. But I certainly do blame him for fanning the flames, and maybe getting some fuel on the logs. And even with all of that, it does nothing to switch my vote from Trump TO Harris. The “to” there is enormous as I’d vote for 10,000 people including my own 76 year old father before I voted for Harris (as well as real options). I really just think she is absolutely abysmal.
Agree with much of what you say. However, I think the guys were making the case that it was not just his actions on Jan 6th that disqualify Trump but everything he did in the two months after the election—the fake elector schemes, the “find some votes” phone call to Georgia, etc.
Exactly
As a mail carrier(don't use my name please) the covid test are sent priority mail to the recipient and this last week has had a surge being received
I have an outdoor pizza oven, and I ain't rich. It was an unemployment project to keep myself productive between jobs last summer. A pallet of bricks is relatively cheap, it's the labor that's expensive.
According to MM you make too much money
Very good commentary from Michael on unions. I have covered them for much of my career. Anyone who’s ever been around a real old school union protest knows the correlation with Marxism as Michael mentioned. Go look at a BLM protest and then a union protest. Shouting, slogans, bullhorns, insults, planned chants, posters, collectivization nonsense and in many respects….violence. If you don’t go along, you’re a “scab” and off with your head. They literally have 50 foot inflatable rats towering over job sites. Oppressor versus Oppressed. It’s one and the same. Unions can be amazing. And of course we’re talking private sector right now, I think most people here understand the insanity of public sector unions. I have found that most people say the biggest value of their union is scheduling & work/life balance, which union shop heads can negotiate and help mandate, if left up to middle management at (insert any corporation)….they simply don’t give a fuck about that stuff. Unions be useful but also can be painfully out of touch and led by out of touch people who haven’t had real jobs in decades.
The tactics of the UAW are not that different from what the longshoremen are/were doing. If the UAW strikes, any business and anyone who is employed by those businesses have to take haircut. The union knows this and they use that fact to put pressure on the companies they are negotiating with. None of those businesses or their employees are made whole, when the strike ends. It’s a hostage situation. That type of tactic is why people have a sour taste in their mouth, when unions come up.
An “X” reference by Welch at the very top! I’m loving it.
I'd like to hear a discussion between Moynihan and Batya on 'working class'.
Yeah that would be interesting
Re: Matt’s Vinny “The Chin” Gigante reference, at least as of 2012 the ILA had a one of Gigante’s nephews and two of his sons-in-law on the payroll, with each pulling down about $400k.
Daggett has also been charged twice with racketeering, with Genovese family members as co-defendants (one of whom disappeared during trial only to turn up partially decomposed in the trunk of a car).
He also makes over $1M (the boys slightly undersold it), and each of his two sons takes jn over $600k.
Nice work if you can get it.
See Lee Fang’s article on his Substack (h/t Liz Wolfe):
https://www.leefang.com/p/longshoremen-strike-highlights-deep
Wow
Thanks for helping out on a slow day at work 🙏🏻