I am generally pretty anti-alarmist. I think most stuff is overblown (see: nearly the entirety of Trump #1), and we are generally better off ignoring most national news/media.
But re: the email about the deportations: how close are we to an actual honest-to-god constitutional crisis? If the the administration is just straight up not answering court questions, and (seemingly/allegedly, I would like to get more confirmation) pretending that it does not have the ability to follow court orders, what happens next? If we assume that the situation is exactly as the emailer describes, what does the court do next? I can't imagine that whatever that next step is, the administration finally says "ok yeah, you got me, I'll follow the order and go get him back".
How do we know if we are in one? What does the escalation look like? Is the Executive branch deciding to ignore the judicial branch only solveable by impeachment? Because that doesn't seem very likely.
Basically, all of this is to ask: from the perspective from someone who usually finds that things are less bad than they initially seem/sound, what does it look like in the near to medium future if this _is_ actually as bad as is seems/sounds?
Call me naive but if I were a betting man I’d wager that we get Marcia’s Garcia out of El Salvador at some point in the near future. I just can’t see even this administration indefinitely ignoring such an egregious error.
My guess is they only do it if they believe it becomes a big enough political liability for themselves, or if they decide/are forced to avoid the constitutional crisis and have to comply with the court orders. If it were an actual US citizen? Sure, they would probably care enough to do something, but I don't think they care if a non-citizen is in a prison that they don't deserve to be in, even if they were the ones who put them there.
Since it's just text, if it turns out not to be for sale and you want that or any other shirt that is just plain text, and you have any sort of image creation program where you can make a .png of said text, my advice is to open a TeePublic shop, upload whatever you want, and get your own printed to order. Best yet, if the shop is open and public, any other random sales you get from your designs pays you a commission and you get a nice little paypal deposit on the 15th of every month.
I can't wait to see the Eli Lake musical biopic, and all those riveting sequences of him sitting down and typing prompts into ChatGPT. "The AI Bard", opening Summer 2030. The movie will, of course, be entirely AI generated
Just listened to this. Haven’t been this stunned and depressed since March 13 2020, when a tour I was on abruptly ended because of the fucking actions of the state. It never ends. You think that ysome time they’re gonna get it right and they never do. Mencken, Nock, Chodorov, Mises, Hayek, Sowell, et al, are the only rational and intellectual refuge left, as well as this and a handful of other podcasts and media outlets. Thanks for reminding us of the truth.
You can ask the J6 defendants that were held for 4 years without due process. Yeah Marcia, that’s how fucking awful it gets. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME (see, I can swear in all caps too)?
It makes me literally laugh out loud when leftists get their panties in a wad about out of control government after the last administration. I’ll politely tell you to stick your outrage where the sun never shines.
Pretty good chance if she listens to the Fifth column she isn't a "leftist". Also, government overreach is bad no matter which side of the political spectrum it's coming from. It literally makes me laugh out loud that people who did nothing but complain for 4 years are now showing themselves to be complete frauds when it comes to due process and free speech. The current MAGA movement is just the right wing version of the woke left, and both are equally revolting
Oh, don’t get me wrong. I hate government overreach. But when faux libertarians like Welch brings forth a letter from a kook getting all lathered up about one erroneously deported person when literally thousands of J6 citizens had their lives destroyed without a peep I get annoyed.
We got rid of hundreds of bad guys. And since they were here illegally I’m fine with less due process. Let’s not scream that the sky is galling because we made one mistake. And let’s recognize partisan harping when we see it.
Anyone who supports the way these deportations are being carried out because we are getting rid of some "bad guys" is also a faux libertarian. I think you also might need to go back and re-listen to Matt's thoughts on J6, he has said multiple times that people were being unfairly prosecuted.
So you are saying that Libertarians expect perfection in execution? Libertarians are good with breaking laws? Libertarians are OK with violence against individuals? I think you may want to beef up a little on libertarian principals.
I’m sure Matt said that, but also am certain he equivocated. He certain did not protest with the vigor he’s amplifying here.
You keep moving the goalposts, people were just trying to point out how it is important to champion due process whether it be for J6 defendants or someone who is being deported. But I will answer your questions just for fun.
So you are saying that Libertarians expect perfection in execution?
No, but I do expect basic due process before the government can deport someone.
Libertarians are good with breaking laws?
Depends on the law. I am perfectly fine with anyone who wants to break drug laws for example. As long as you aren't harming anyone.
Libertarians are OK with violence against individuals?
Obviously not, non aggression principle is one of the core tenets of libertarianism. If someone commits an act of violence they should be charged and the case adjudicated in a court of law
There is a real discrediting broad-spectrum memory hole about what 2021 was like on their end. The monstrosities they descended to once power came are too easily forgotten, in lock step, and on command.
For the sake of argument let’s grant your premise that there were as-bad or worse injustices surrounding January 6th. Why is the appropriate reaction to gloat about what’s happening now? Having seen how awful the government can be, shouldn’t we be demanding that Trump be better, rather than continuing or ratcheting up the awfulness? Hypocrisy isn’t a moral license to behave worse than the hypocrites.
What is there to gloat about? I was clearly mocking not gloating. I find the defensiveness about J6 in the few comments here humorous. Almost as if I’ve touched a nerve. And I think I know the nerve I’ve touched.
How do you feel about the J6 defendants? Did they get what they deserved?
Sorry if I mischaracterized your tone. I honestly didn't follow the J6 cases closely enough to comment. My general impression is that a lot of people were overcharged and in those cases got more than they deserved, but I can't cite specifics. I'm happy to comment if you want to link to specific cases. This is why I didn't push back against your overall premise. I pushed back against the idea that we can dismiss what is happening now because of whatever happened surrounding January 6. I see below that you disagree with the lack of due process in the current deportations, so I think we're on the same page (though it wasn't at all clear from your first comment).
Right, my point was not to dismiss the current issue but to point out how hysterical people get about certain topics. There are topics favored by certain groups (like unfettered immigration) that when challenged, any negative result is considered catastrophic. Those groups often ignore larger government intrusions because they are inconvenient to their beliefs.
I find amplifying these hysterics to be a mistake. Matt should know better. I appear to have uncovered a bias in many of the posters here. Their sensitivity to the comparison betrays it.
For all we know she didn’t like that either. I like to think most people around here try to be somewhat consistent regardless of which side is making the rules.
So is the problem that she over-reacted (and, by the way, what is the proper response to the government potentially wrongly deporting someone to an El Salvadoran prison?), or is the problem that you imagined that she had a particular opinion on a different (albeit related) topic?
How about “I think it’s wrong to unjustly deport someone to an El Salvadoran prison.” I think that covers it. No hyperbole needed.
So tell me, do you think the J6 defendants got what they deserved? Do you think the general perception by the media and those on the left was correct?
Yes I assumed this person is on the left and they reacted the way I suggested. No evidence otherwise. I’d be glad to admit I’m wrong if they prove it here. I’m not naive enough to think if she makes the effort to write in to the show that she doesn’t read the comments.
Great walkoff music. I didn’t realize he wrote Independence Day during the Darkness period. Pretty cool to hear a live performance from two years before it ended up on an album. And not just any album. Arguably his best. I’m prepared to defend that statement.
Springsteen's dad would have been so MAGA.
Trump did win Monmouth County pretty easily in both elections. This actually *is* MAGA country.
I am generally pretty anti-alarmist. I think most stuff is overblown (see: nearly the entirety of Trump #1), and we are generally better off ignoring most national news/media.
But re: the email about the deportations: how close are we to an actual honest-to-god constitutional crisis? If the the administration is just straight up not answering court questions, and (seemingly/allegedly, I would like to get more confirmation) pretending that it does not have the ability to follow court orders, what happens next? If we assume that the situation is exactly as the emailer describes, what does the court do next? I can't imagine that whatever that next step is, the administration finally says "ok yeah, you got me, I'll follow the order and go get him back".
How do we know if we are in one? What does the escalation look like? Is the Executive branch deciding to ignore the judicial branch only solveable by impeachment? Because that doesn't seem very likely.
Basically, all of this is to ask: from the perspective from someone who usually finds that things are less bad than they initially seem/sound, what does it look like in the near to medium future if this _is_ actually as bad as is seems/sounds?
Call me naive but if I were a betting man I’d wager that we get Marcia’s Garcia out of El Salvador at some point in the near future. I just can’t see even this administration indefinitely ignoring such an egregious error.
My guess is they only do it if they believe it becomes a big enough political liability for themselves, or if they decide/are forced to avoid the constitutional crisis and have to comply with the court orders. If it were an actual US citizen? Sure, they would probably care enough to do something, but I don't think they care if a non-citizen is in a prison that they don't deserve to be in, even if they were the ones who put them there.
Can someone link me to where I can buy that shirt?
Since it's just text, if it turns out not to be for sale and you want that or any other shirt that is just plain text, and you have any sort of image creation program where you can make a .png of said text, my advice is to open a TeePublic shop, upload whatever you want, and get your own printed to order. Best yet, if the shop is open and public, any other random sales you get from your designs pays you a commission and you get a nice little paypal deposit on the 15th of every month.
Came to the comments section to say exactly this!
Someone is hawking them on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Tariffs-Foster-Political-Dysfunction-2-Sided/dp/B07BDBZ55L
But as Craig said, you could also do the same thing yourself...
Man, Bruce Springsteen is awful.
I can't wait to see the Eli Lake musical biopic, and all those riveting sequences of him sitting down and typing prompts into ChatGPT. "The AI Bard", opening Summer 2030. The movie will, of course, be entirely AI generated
Can’t be worse than that one movie everyone was recently praising
Europe loves him I guess
Just listened to this. Haven’t been this stunned and depressed since March 13 2020, when a tour I was on abruptly ended because of the fucking actions of the state. It never ends. You think that ysome time they’re gonna get it right and they never do. Mencken, Nock, Chodorov, Mises, Hayek, Sowell, et al, are the only rational and intellectual refuge left, as well as this and a handful of other podcasts and media outlets. Thanks for reminding us of the truth.
All I can say is I’m sorry I missed the first 7 years with you guys … is there a full archive somewhere?? Thanks
Click on the "Archive" button at the top of the main wethefifth.com page, and just keep scrolling down.
Thank you!!
You can ask the J6 defendants that were held for 4 years without due process. Yeah Marcia, that’s how fucking awful it gets. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME (see, I can swear in all caps too)?
It makes me literally laugh out loud when leftists get their panties in a wad about out of control government after the last administration. I’ll politely tell you to stick your outrage where the sun never shines.
Pretty good chance if she listens to the Fifth column she isn't a "leftist". Also, government overreach is bad no matter which side of the political spectrum it's coming from. It literally makes me laugh out loud that people who did nothing but complain for 4 years are now showing themselves to be complete frauds when it comes to due process and free speech. The current MAGA movement is just the right wing version of the woke left, and both are equally revolting
Oh, don’t get me wrong. I hate government overreach. But when faux libertarians like Welch brings forth a letter from a kook getting all lathered up about one erroneously deported person when literally thousands of J6 citizens had their lives destroyed without a peep I get annoyed.
We got rid of hundreds of bad guys. And since they were here illegally I’m fine with less due process. Let’s not scream that the sky is galling because we made one mistake. And let’s recognize partisan harping when we see it.
Anyone who supports the way these deportations are being carried out because we are getting rid of some "bad guys" is also a faux libertarian. I think you also might need to go back and re-listen to Matt's thoughts on J6, he has said multiple times that people were being unfairly prosecuted.
So you are saying that Libertarians expect perfection in execution? Libertarians are good with breaking laws? Libertarians are OK with violence against individuals? I think you may want to beef up a little on libertarian principals.
I’m sure Matt said that, but also am certain he equivocated. He certain did not protest with the vigor he’s amplifying here.
You keep moving the goalposts, people were just trying to point out how it is important to champion due process whether it be for J6 defendants or someone who is being deported. But I will answer your questions just for fun.
So you are saying that Libertarians expect perfection in execution?
No, but I do expect basic due process before the government can deport someone.
Libertarians are good with breaking laws?
Depends on the law. I am perfectly fine with anyone who wants to break drug laws for example. As long as you aren't harming anyone.
Libertarians are OK with violence against individuals?
Obviously not, non aggression principle is one of the core tenets of libertarianism. If someone commits an act of violence they should be charged and the case adjudicated in a court of law
Whenever anyone is held without due process, it's a tragedy.
I agree.
There is a real discrediting broad-spectrum memory hole about what 2021 was like on their end. The monstrosities they descended to once power came are too easily forgotten, in lock step, and on command.
For the sake of argument let’s grant your premise that there were as-bad or worse injustices surrounding January 6th. Why is the appropriate reaction to gloat about what’s happening now? Having seen how awful the government can be, shouldn’t we be demanding that Trump be better, rather than continuing or ratcheting up the awfulness? Hypocrisy isn’t a moral license to behave worse than the hypocrites.
What is there to gloat about? I was clearly mocking not gloating. I find the defensiveness about J6 in the few comments here humorous. Almost as if I’ve touched a nerve. And I think I know the nerve I’ve touched.
How do you feel about the J6 defendants? Did they get what they deserved?
Sorry if I mischaracterized your tone. I honestly didn't follow the J6 cases closely enough to comment. My general impression is that a lot of people were overcharged and in those cases got more than they deserved, but I can't cite specifics. I'm happy to comment if you want to link to specific cases. This is why I didn't push back against your overall premise. I pushed back against the idea that we can dismiss what is happening now because of whatever happened surrounding January 6. I see below that you disagree with the lack of due process in the current deportations, so I think we're on the same page (though it wasn't at all clear from your first comment).
Right, my point was not to dismiss the current issue but to point out how hysterical people get about certain topics. There are topics favored by certain groups (like unfettered immigration) that when challenged, any negative result is considered catastrophic. Those groups often ignore larger government intrusions because they are inconvenient to their beliefs.
I find amplifying these hysterics to be a mistake. Matt should know better. I appear to have uncovered a bias in many of the posters here. Their sensitivity to the comparison betrays it.
For all we know she didn’t like that either. I like to think most people around here try to be somewhat consistent regardless of which side is making the rules.
She has every opportunity to reply and prove me wrong.
So, she has to prove an assumption that you've made on a thread that she is not part of. OK. Seems reasonable.
Regardless, she still way overreacted. I find her reaction and all the defensiveness to my comment comical.
So is the problem that she over-reacted (and, by the way, what is the proper response to the government potentially wrongly deporting someone to an El Salvadoran prison?), or is the problem that you imagined that she had a particular opinion on a different (albeit related) topic?
How about “I think it’s wrong to unjustly deport someone to an El Salvadoran prison.” I think that covers it. No hyperbole needed.
So tell me, do you think the J6 defendants got what they deserved? Do you think the general perception by the media and those on the left was correct?
Yes I assumed this person is on the left and they reacted the way I suggested. No evidence otherwise. I’d be glad to admit I’m wrong if they prove it here. I’m not naive enough to think if she makes the effort to write in to the show that she doesn’t read the comments.
Katherine’s hair is fire 🔥 and I love it!
Batya Ungar Sargon is a painfully stupid and malicious cunt.
https://us.cnn.com/2025/04/05/politics/doj-attorney-leave-maryland-father-deportation/index.html
Looks like the DOJ lawyer is in trouble with the boss
Great walkoff music. I didn’t realize he wrote Independence Day during the Darkness period. Pretty cool to hear a live performance from two years before it ended up on an album. And not just any album. Arguably his best. I’m prepared to defend that statement.
Thad Russell is actually what drew me to the podcast. I loved his interview with Kmele and gave the show a shot.