Matt! As the Fifth's "in-house IDF reservist" stationed on the Lebanese border, I can (without giving up state secrets) verify that we have more soldiers here in the north with guns trained on Hezbollah than we do in all of Gaza/Gaza envelope. Stay tuned!
I feel like I'm increasingly on my own island where I support Israel but do not agree with the path that it is appearing to take.
I think the comparisons to 9/11 and the Iraq War are fair, and I didn't like how Mr. Zamir brushed them off. He cited popular support in Israel as a justification alone for the current strategy - but this is exactly where politicians and leaders need to make sober decisions and not get wrapped up in the emotions of the public (a la 9/11). It also makes me think of Iraq and the de-Ba'athification campaign - the decision to try and root out a political party based on an ideology and anyone associated with it totally destabilized the country. It is ironic (or maybe a better word?) that this gentlemen is also a center-left politician because these are basically the same mistakes that the American center-left made 20 years ago that still hurt their legitimacy.
Overall if the end goal is safety for Israel and Israelis, I don't see how this military campaign as it's currently structured is going to achieve that. Will a destroyed, extremely impoverished Gaza suddenly lead to sweeping pacification across the population? Or is it more likely that this is going to make things worse? If it's true that most of the Gazans support Hamas now, it will only continue to grow as this war drags on and eventually the task involves figuring out how to deal with an entire population that actively hates you and blames you for their pain and suffering (whether it's right or wrong).
It's not like there is an easy solution but there never will be any progress if people from this side continue to push back on criticism, like this gentleman, by saying it is anti-Israeli or anti-Zionist or anti-Semite. I support the secular democracy and freedoms that Israel represents, not the extreme religious aspects associated with it like the settler movement. It was frustrating to hear someone that I would've hoped would have been more aligned with my views not answering certain questions because "the war isn't over yet" or refusing to acknowledge that the settlers can't continue with business as usual if peace is to be achieved in the region. I realize that the Palestinian side is not necessarily better but someone has to come to the table eventually and I hold my side (that of liberal democracy) to the standard that they should be leading this if no one else is.
This isn't just my view on Israel - Palestine either. I increasingly believe that there has to be a negotiated settlement in Ukraine that will likely involve concessions to Putin and Russia. It is terrible to give in like that from a moral standpoint, but the reality is in that conflict (and likely this one as well), the alternatives are a bloody protracted stalemate or escalation to a destructive level. I fear instead that these conflicts have become too ideological and tied to people's identities and that the realpolitik solutions that are needed will be hopelessly out of reach.
I'm sure I'll get some pushback for this but I hope people stick to the substances of my argument.
Tough to push back on your reasonable POV - which I read as desirous of good, broad outcomes that satisfy short, medium, and long-terms interests. I guess I might be with you if I could do a good job answering the question of what Israel should do instead of what it's been doing. More ground troops and fewer bombs? Maybe, but at what cost to Israeli troops?
I guess I'm hoping for a quick completion of hostilities and generous support from Israel and the United States in rebuilding housing and infrastructure in a way that will lead to prosperity -- at least on a relative basis.
It's a difficult question and I don't think there are any easy solutions. I do think the goal of "destroying" Hamas, specifically through military means, needs to be dispensed - like the War on Terror, it's something abstract that either cannot be actually achieved or done so at way too great of a cost. I think if the priorities narrow to a focus on first and foremost returning the hostages safely followed by safety and security for every innocent person in the region, and finally, only if possible, accountability of the Hamas leadership responsible for these crimes, these can lead to an end to the military action. I do not necessarily think use of force is wrong as a concept, but I just do not think it will actually improve anything or lead to the desired outcomes in this specific scenario. I agree with you that safety and security can probably only come from diplomatic and economic means, which means doing something to support development and governance for the Palestinians. I think to achieve the top two priorities you unfortunately may need to give up, either partially or totally, the third one.
I do find it interesting though how many Jewish celebrities in liberal Hollywood have been unafraid to give a full-throated defense of Israel. You'd expect it from Gal Gadot and Natalie Portman being Israeli, or Mayim Bialik being how she identifies with her religion, but a lot of others have come out unequivocally as pro-Israel. October 7th really seems to have hit that nerve, even among more secular Jews, that once again Jews are being killed and the world doesn't seem to care that much.
It wasn't so much the massacre of hundreds of Israelis, but what came the day after. I.e. hundreds of people around the Western world not only celebrating it but taking advantage of the occasion to attack Jews in the streets and Jewish institutions like schools and synagogues.
10/7 wasn't just an attack on Israel, it was an attack on all Jews.
The book by Daniel Gordis is We Stand Divided: The Rift Between American Jews and Israel. I happen to be reading it at the moment, and it’s really good.
Moynihan, you edit and compile the episodes right? I presume you’re the one picking the jams to. It would be swell to include the artist/song and a link to an online version in the show notes. Give credit where it’s due… also we want the links.
I like how this guy thinks that if any other country annihilated the civilian population across its border “in three days” that there would be no push back.
This is one of those interview you’ll listen to five years from now and it’ll sound totally psychotic. Already sort of does.
Israel has done nothing wrong in 65 years and this tragic situation is entirely the fault of the Palestinians, who should be thankful the Israelis haven’t nuked them. The only reason someone would disagree with this framing is because they are anti-Semitic. That was the entire one hour podcast.
Hope that helps, Bill, you mouth breathing feckless cunt.
What a bizarre mischaracterization of everything he said. It must take a tremendous amount of bad faith and outright dishonesty to construct a strawman of that magnitude. But maybe I should give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you simply aren’t very bright.
You think that in five years so many normies will switch over to your point of view that this sounds insane? I can’t decide if you have a zealot’s belief in what you call “progress” or are just venting your spleen
Fascinating, this man does not speak as though he was anywhere near the center, it seems he was straight-up left... but of course, Israeli politics are different.
If anyone reads this please comment on the question of the judicial overhaul? I had the impression that it is/was a needed reform due to judges ruling freely and frequently against the other branches.
Matt! As the Fifth's "in-house IDF reservist" stationed on the Lebanese border, I can (without giving up state secrets) verify that we have more soldiers here in the north with guns trained on Hezbollah than we do in all of Gaza/Gaza envelope. Stay tuned!
I feel like I'm increasingly on my own island where I support Israel but do not agree with the path that it is appearing to take.
I think the comparisons to 9/11 and the Iraq War are fair, and I didn't like how Mr. Zamir brushed them off. He cited popular support in Israel as a justification alone for the current strategy - but this is exactly where politicians and leaders need to make sober decisions and not get wrapped up in the emotions of the public (a la 9/11). It also makes me think of Iraq and the de-Ba'athification campaign - the decision to try and root out a political party based on an ideology and anyone associated with it totally destabilized the country. It is ironic (or maybe a better word?) that this gentlemen is also a center-left politician because these are basically the same mistakes that the American center-left made 20 years ago that still hurt their legitimacy.
Overall if the end goal is safety for Israel and Israelis, I don't see how this military campaign as it's currently structured is going to achieve that. Will a destroyed, extremely impoverished Gaza suddenly lead to sweeping pacification across the population? Or is it more likely that this is going to make things worse? If it's true that most of the Gazans support Hamas now, it will only continue to grow as this war drags on and eventually the task involves figuring out how to deal with an entire population that actively hates you and blames you for their pain and suffering (whether it's right or wrong).
It's not like there is an easy solution but there never will be any progress if people from this side continue to push back on criticism, like this gentleman, by saying it is anti-Israeli or anti-Zionist or anti-Semite. I support the secular democracy and freedoms that Israel represents, not the extreme religious aspects associated with it like the settler movement. It was frustrating to hear someone that I would've hoped would have been more aligned with my views not answering certain questions because "the war isn't over yet" or refusing to acknowledge that the settlers can't continue with business as usual if peace is to be achieved in the region. I realize that the Palestinian side is not necessarily better but someone has to come to the table eventually and I hold my side (that of liberal democracy) to the standard that they should be leading this if no one else is.
This isn't just my view on Israel - Palestine either. I increasingly believe that there has to be a negotiated settlement in Ukraine that will likely involve concessions to Putin and Russia. It is terrible to give in like that from a moral standpoint, but the reality is in that conflict (and likely this one as well), the alternatives are a bloody protracted stalemate or escalation to a destructive level. I fear instead that these conflicts have become too ideological and tied to people's identities and that the realpolitik solutions that are needed will be hopelessly out of reach.
I'm sure I'll get some pushback for this but I hope people stick to the substances of my argument.
Tough to push back on your reasonable POV - which I read as desirous of good, broad outcomes that satisfy short, medium, and long-terms interests. I guess I might be with you if I could do a good job answering the question of what Israel should do instead of what it's been doing. More ground troops and fewer bombs? Maybe, but at what cost to Israeli troops?
I guess I'm hoping for a quick completion of hostilities and generous support from Israel and the United States in rebuilding housing and infrastructure in a way that will lead to prosperity -- at least on a relative basis.
It's a difficult question and I don't think there are any easy solutions. I do think the goal of "destroying" Hamas, specifically through military means, needs to be dispensed - like the War on Terror, it's something abstract that either cannot be actually achieved or done so at way too great of a cost. I think if the priorities narrow to a focus on first and foremost returning the hostages safely followed by safety and security for every innocent person in the region, and finally, only if possible, accountability of the Hamas leadership responsible for these crimes, these can lead to an end to the military action. I do not necessarily think use of force is wrong as a concept, but I just do not think it will actually improve anything or lead to the desired outcomes in this specific scenario. I agree with you that safety and security can probably only come from diplomatic and economic means, which means doing something to support development and governance for the Palestinians. I think to achieve the top two priorities you unfortunately may need to give up, either partially or totally, the third one.
I appreciate these little interviews. It’s a nice way to give us something to chew on.
I am fully supportive of Israel, but I fear some of these alliances will undermine its legitimacy (Michael Rappaport)
I do find it interesting though how many Jewish celebrities in liberal Hollywood have been unafraid to give a full-throated defense of Israel. You'd expect it from Gal Gadot and Natalie Portman being Israeli, or Mayim Bialik being how she identifies with her religion, but a lot of others have come out unequivocally as pro-Israel. October 7th really seems to have hit that nerve, even among more secular Jews, that once again Jews are being killed and the world doesn't seem to care that much.
It wasn't so much the massacre of hundreds of Israelis, but what came the day after. I.e. hundreds of people around the Western world not only celebrating it but taking advantage of the occasion to attack Jews in the streets and Jewish institutions like schools and synagogues.
10/7 wasn't just an attack on Israel, it was an attack on all Jews.
Excellent interview
The book by Daniel Gordis is We Stand Divided: The Rift Between American Jews and Israel. I happen to be reading it at the moment, and it’s really good.
I read it last year because Matt suggested it (around the time he went to Israel). It was so clarifying. It’s one of my most recommended books now.
Great conversation.
Great interview Matt! I learned a lot. Interesting guy. Good to get the inside perspective.
This was a fantastic interview. Thank you!
Nice job Matt
Ah so good 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
The outro song 🥰
What is it?
https://youtu.be/g7-dMffS6Us?si=WmdV_K1XTCw0w7Vv
Logged in just for this, thanks.
Moynihan, you edit and compile the episodes right? I presume you’re the one picking the jams to. It would be swell to include the artist/song and a link to an online version in the show notes. Give credit where it’s due… also we want the links.
I like how this guy thinks that if any other country annihilated the civilian population across its border “in three days” that there would be no push back.
This is one of those interview you’ll listen to five years from now and it’ll sound totally psychotic. Already sort of does.
What? I’m gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that I somehow can’t understand what you’re saying. So say it again, for me, a retard.
I have a strong sense I’ll still be wondering what the actual fuck is wrong with you.
Israel has done nothing wrong in 65 years and this tragic situation is entirely the fault of the Palestinians, who should be thankful the Israelis haven’t nuked them. The only reason someone would disagree with this framing is because they are anti-Semitic. That was the entire one hour podcast.
Hope that helps, Bill, you mouth breathing feckless cunt.
What a bizarre mischaracterization of everything he said. It must take a tremendous amount of bad faith and outright dishonesty to construct a strawman of that magnitude. But maybe I should give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you simply aren’t very bright.
I wish you a Merry Christmas. And to be hit by a bus.
You think that in five years so many normies will switch over to your point of view that this sounds insane? I can’t decide if you have a zealot’s belief in what you call “progress” or are just venting your spleen
Or maybe you’ve been reading too much Freddie deBoer
Fascinating, this man does not speak as though he was anywhere near the center, it seems he was straight-up left... but of course, Israeli politics are different.
If anyone reads this please comment on the question of the judicial overhaul? I had the impression that it is/was a needed reform due to judges ruling freely and frequently against the other branches.
Great interview. Also: what was the music at the end?
J’aime by Riff Cohen. Yael posted a link to the video above.
Why has Rapaport been the biggest creep during all this? Dude gives me the heebie jeebies.